SPEAKER_00 0:34

Welcome to the Five Arms and Lucky Finn podcast. I am your host, Brendan McCormick, with my partner, aka Lucky Finn, Jason Ide. And Jason, we have a head coach in the building, head coach of Purdue Fort Wayne, John Kaufman. Welcome in, John. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Thanks, guys. I appreciate you having me. And it's cool. I'm gonna already call you out, man. It's it's cool that you're an IPFW grad, man. It's awesome. Uh love to follow and love being on your podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Thank you so much, coach. It means the world to us, especially joining us mid-season. Uh, for those of you that don't know, I am a graduate of Purdue Fort Wayne University class of 2019, and it means the world to have the head basketball coach of the university on our podcast. So it means the world, John. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

No, no problem. Hey, and I'm gonna review since you already disclosed it off air. I'm gonna call you out when we beat Indiana when they're ranked number three in the country, and on national TV on Big Ten Network, you fell down on air. I'm gonna go back and clip and I'm gonna post it, okay? I I expect a repost from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yes, no, I'll repost it. I will own up to that. It was uh one of the most embarrassing moments of my life, John. But you know, as a man does, he owns up to what has happened and he gets better. So, you know, that that's what I do. That's what I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

I've never seen this either. Hey, one of my biggest wins in in school history here in league play. I called too many timeouts, I can't count. And we end up winning triple overtime against uh Cleveland State and win the league that year. Um, and go don't lose a game in February. And that was one of them. So, like, wey, we all make mistakes, it's all about how you grow from those mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yes, absolutely. Couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more with you, coach. Well, coach, let's go way, way back to the beginning. You you saw a finance job in San Fran. Like, how do we how do we find our passion for coaching through that job?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Well, uh, man, you're going way back now, and like I don't I don't feel old, and then like now as I'm talking to some of my parents and stuff, like I'm older than they are, and so it's like, man, look in the mirror, like like you're no spring chicken anymore. Um, you know, as I look back on it, and and this is the part, man. I'm I I still feel young, I still feel like I act young um because I'm around college kids every day, and I love what I do. And if I can give a shout-out to anybody, like what you want, figure out what you want to do, find what you're passionate about and and and and what you want to do, like like and and then it all works out after that. And you know, I'm very few people I would recommend going from six digits to four digits with a career path. Okay, my dad did not understand that choice, all right, but it turned out like gold. My mom jumped for joy because I was influencing the world a little differently than when I was working in finance. But um, you know, my path was, and I know you have a bunch of football followers. Um, I went to one of the marquee um athletic schools, high schools in in the in the country, my uh mayor's high school or mayor's school in Atlanta. Um, you know, cool for football guys like Sean McVeigh, like one of my claims fame hall of fame. I'm right next to him, all right, in the hall of fame. Um high school. Now the irony is he's about 10 years younger than me. All right, and he got into the hall of fame about 10 years earlier than me. So that just shows you how much better he was than me. You know, the other one I told my guys this the other day, I said Ghost played football with me and basketball in high school. They're like, Amari Hardwick. I was like, Yeah, I show them all my phone. I was like, I got into last street cred right there. And you know, I mean, we had like on my high school basketball team, I think there were nine guys that went on to play college basketball, two guys went on to the NFL, um, and one played 16 years in in the uh in the NBA. And that's my other claim to fame. Like he was he he he was our third string point guard, um, and obviously turned out a little bit better than me as he progressed in that player of the year in Georgia. Uh, he was a sophomore when I was a senior, played at Georgia Tech, then um, you know, Matt Harpering. I think his daughter's one of the top, uh, if not the top player in the country right now. Um, but I so I I had great high school coaches. Our our football team did not lose a regular season game the five years that I went to mayor school from eighth grade on. My basketball team, there were multiple state championships uh within there. Unfortunately, I did not win one my junior senior year, but we went 26 and two. My high school coach was phenomenal. I mean, probably my biggest mentor outside of my parents. Um, and then my baseball team was ranked in the in USA Today, uh, top 25. So I had this great high school experience. And I go on to Washington and Lee, um, you know, have a nice career there, but like I kind of get shifted into finance. Um, my sister is a professor at the University of San Francisco. I go out for the summer uh and decide, you know, hey, I'm gonna spend my graduation money, just enjoy out on the West Coast summer, figure out what I want to do um after, you know, playing college basketball. And not sure I'm gonna live in San Francisco, just enjoy that. I run out of money, realize I gotta go get a job. Next thing I know, I got the suit my dad bought me, and and uh, you know, and said, All right, let's go start interviewing and I get a job in finance. And I'm working out there for two years and and and loved West Coast, it was cool. Um, but you know, there's a lot of people out there maybe watching this, hey, you know, you live for your weekends. You know, I had we had a bunch of guys on our floor, um uh uh on the banking floor. Like we all had investment, like we we all had this ski house out in Tahoe. Uh so release. I skied 68 days. I never knew how to ski because I was a basketball player, taught myself how to ski skied 68 days my last year, and uh but but like I didn't love my job now. You know, hey, we it was cool. Like we were at the office. I mean, I lived on on Broadway. I looked out one window at the at the Golden Gate Bridge, one window at the Bay Bridge, had a rooftop. It was cool, but yeah, and I went to work at 4:30 in the morning, working New York time, oftentimes off early. So we come up to the mountains, do that stuff. I mean, that was all awesome, but like don't live for your weekends, like live for what you do every day, find what you're passionate for. And I think that's why we've been so successful at Purdue Fort Wayne is you know, I found a position. I said, hey, I'm gonna treat this like the job I want to be in the rest of my life. I've now been here 15 years and we've turned this place to gold, and it's been really cool. Well, backing up, I I end up getting a division three job at uh Emory, Virginia out of this finance job. Well, our company got bought out. We were owned by the Prince of Liechtenstein, get bought out by Investco in uh uh in Texas. All right. Okay, there you are, little Texas guy, and uh and actually the president at the time was one of my high school teammates' dads. So, like this whole connection of worlds that bought us out, and so um I got a great severance package, went to Alaska for two months with a guy who sat in the cubicle next to me. Um, and we went, we brought our fly rods, mountain bikes, skis, and spent two and a half months in Alaska, kind of going all the way up. And we go from like bar to bar on the way up to Alaska with no itinerary, other than we were gonna take a a uh uh uh we were gonna go on a paddling thing on uh on Glacier Bay. That was the only thing we had. So we'd go, What do you do? And we'd go into Fernie, British Columbia, big, oh, you got to fish the elk, and we'd stay there, fish the elk for two days, catch a bunch of trout, and we go the next town and be like, Oh, you gotta go mountain biking on this trail. So we'd hang out there. It's amazing what what you know who you can connect with. It was a cool way to travel, did some really cool stuff there. So then I get this job, I connect, like I get a career change, worked for a uh a coach, um Bob Johnson, and it changed my life. Um, other than my high school coach and my parents made you know impact in my life more than anybody else. Like he was his dad was chief of staff for the army during Vietnam, had a picture of his dad, General Johnson, on the cover of Time Magazine in his office, small division three school in Southwest Virginia. They played in the league that I played in at Washington League, and so I was his only assistant. I was only allowed to coach with him for two years, and he kicked me out the door. He said, My vision is hey, I'm gonna teach you how to network in coaching, I'm gonna give you all the tools, I'm gonna work a coach, but then I'm gonna kick you out the door, go make your own way. Well, yeah, while I'm there, I mean, it was like a PhD in leadership. He was an army ranger, went to West Point. Um, there was a there was a network of coaches that went through there. There were five of us in like a 12-year span that all became division one head coaches. Mike Young, who's currently the head coach at Virginia Tech. This is a small school, Emory Henry College in Virginia, Southwest Virginia. Then you had Jimmy Allen, who went on um to be the head coach at wet uh Army West Point. Um, you had uh, let's see, Jamie and Christian, who went on to become, he's currently, let's see, he's at oh, I'm going blank. He he was at GW, he was at the mount, um, went overseas, and he's currently in the NEC. I'm I'm going blank. I'm going blank on where he is now. Um and then uh let's see who else was oh, Nathan Davis, who's currently uh head coach at uh Bucknell, who now is the head coach at New Hampshire. Um, and then myself. And so, like it's cool this network. And those guys, those two I networked. I got shipped out on the weekends. Go, hey, go hang out with Jimmy, he's assistant navy. All right, he's gonna teach you about some recruiting and stuff like that. And I go hang out, sleep on his couch, and then I go the next. And and this network taught me how to coach. Then I got a job at College of Charleston, my first uh division one coaching job, and that was working for John Crass. He won the league championship, attack or southern conference every year. He coached division one. Never, never didn't win the regular season. It was amazing and had a great experience there. He was Mr. Detail. Then I go work for a friend of mine who had a similar path, went to my high school, is currently the athletic director at Mary School now, but he was the youngest head coach in the country at Stetson, and he had left a law practice to go into that. So I worked for him and then go up to Colgate after that. Did that for eight years, met my wife down at Stetson, she's the college coach for the last 20 years, then went to Colgate, and then we got let go of Colgate. And the gentleman I worked for at Colgate, Emma Davis, was a phenomenal coach. Um, phenomenal coach. Unfortunately, I had a couple injuries. We got let go, and then I'm I got a yellow pad, I'm writing down all the names I know in college sports. Like, hey, how do I stay in this thing? My we had a two-year-old, my wife's pregnant, she's coaching at Hamilton College. Um, we're like, man, we're gonna have to move, you know, and this is where like life is crazy. So um, I I I had a job offer to go work for Zach Spiker at Army West Point, but it was like nickels at my age, and with two kids, my wife was pregnant with Lucy, our daughter, Tommy's two. She would have had to leave Hamilton, like it was gonna be hard to live in West Point. And uh, and this is Chris Holtman, uh gives me the lifeline. And Chris was an assistant at Gardner Webb when I was at Stetson. We became friends. I can't remember where it's whether it was Ohio or Butler at the time. Um, but he says, Hey, I know this guy, Tony Jasik, uh just got the job at IPFW. Dane Fife had just left to go to uh to Michigan State, and and uh he says, Hey, I I think with your Florida Taj, unique recruiting base, like I think I can connect you. And I'm like, dude, nobody's gonna get a job like that. I'm staying in the general suite in the Thayer Hotel in West Point, just interviewed, got off of the job. We know we can't afford to take it with our family. And Tony like interviews me, and he's like, Hey man, uh, you know, I'm I'm really interested. And I said, Well, dude, hey, how how much how interested? Because I I gotta figure this out really quickly. And I literally, as I go out to meet him, I interview at Covington Catholic High School in uh in Kentucky on my way out there. Like I'm scrambling trying to make college coaching today. I do not want to go back to finance, you know, and he offers me a job. It was incredible, like that never happens. And then we get really good. Um, we brought a bunch of Florida guys that I was tied to, had some really good Midwestern guys, but like we had like four first team, you know, all league guys from Florida that I had known during my time in Florida. Bring them, we win games three years after being let go. I'm a division one head coach, one of three sixty-four. Like that is amazing. And you know, I I've just had this path of like, like, hey, make this job the one you've only been in the rest of your life, and it'll turn out like gold. And I treated that like day one when I was assistant coach, and I was 40 years old as assistant coach at IPFW, you know, probably not your dream situation at age 40, but man, I was coaching, I had a lifeline. I'm doing what I love. My wife's family's an hour away in Lime, Ohio. She gets offered a job starting an NAI program. Like, this is gold. And we recruit really well when 25 games are my third year here, and I get offered the job. And I've treated it that same way in the job from when I got here to where it is now, like we're sustainable in the NIL world because of the relationships I've built and because of success we've had. We're the winningest mid-major in the state of Indiana over the last decade, and we've built freakish stats. You're gonna talk a little offense, like we're number over the last 10 years, number two and three-point field goals made, number seven and three-point field goal percentage, top 20, number 14 in scoring over the last decade, and top 25 in every two-point field goal percentage. So, like, that's happened by like I stylistically found playing fast, shooting the threes, pacing space, and it's just worked out like gold. And like, I got guys like you who went to school at IPFW now who are still big fans beat Notre Dame like a month ago, uh three weeks ago, and so it's cool, man. I I've loved it here. Fort Wynn's a great city, great town. I I've been very, very blessed in Fort Wayne. All right, man. I've been talking a bunch. Give me some questions.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yes, yes, coach. No, I mean, what a what a journey, coach. What a journey through all those different and then the lifeline. Like, shoot. I mean, to have that belief in yourself and especially like you know, keeping the faith and just staying positive. That's that's absolutely incredible, coach. Absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Well, the what the world is about relationships, and I think I mentioned it earlier, just kind of briefed. Like, I I'm a yellow pad guy, and my money and banking professor, uh, Dr. Art Goldsmith, who's a huge basketball fan, came to all my games. I took his money and banking class, and that was a bear. I stayed like 36 hours, not in a row, but for his final. And uh I think I still got in the B range, but like his his quote was always like, Hey, if you don't understand it, grab a yellow pad, work it out. Write it down, work it out. I still use that with my players, like, write it down, work it out. And I I was trying to work out uh you know how I stay in college basketball. Um, when I was on my way recruiting a kid in Philadelphia from Colgate, and and uh and I get a call from from my head coach, hey, we we we've been let go. My wife is with her college softball team. Um, you know, we're from New York, we're in New York. She's down in Florida, and it's like minutes before the first pitch of their spring, their their summer trip. And I gotta call her, and I have to call her now because our other assistant coach, his wife was her trainer. So like she's gonna find out. So I gotta call her, and and she's got my son who's two years old, like sitting in the dugout with a helmet on, like and be like, hey man, our our life in Hamilton, New York is unfortunately probably over. We got to figure this thing out. I grab a yellow pad, um, and I write down everybody I know in college basketball, and I'm just relentless. Um, like calling, following up, hey, how can you know? And Remiah, it just takes time. And and like, man, people came through some really, really strong relationships helped me through that. So that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Man, that's something we often talk about a lot. Like, especially it's just the connections uh people have and keeping those connections alive. And uh, that's something we talked about in another interview coach that we had with another uh Dallas Fort Wars football coaches, his connections and the recruiting trail as well. So it's all about who you know, ladies and gentlemen. That's all I guess.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah, it does seriously things give back to you as you go through as long as just do it the right way. Um, and that's where like it's really critical right now because the world is very transactional around college sports right now. And and my belief is that uh, you know, if if you can still be relationship-based, um, understand, appreciate the transactional world, but still be relationship-based um and do things the right way, I think it's still gonna play out for you. Um, there may be some short-term uh losses in certain uh areas, uh, may take a little bit more time, but it's gonna pay out for you over a long time, and we're gonna figure this, figure this new world of college sports out um and do it, do it the right way. Because we're, you know, our our our goal is not only just to win games, but like to do it and and raise young men and women um and and do it through the platform of college sports and teach them you know incredible lessons. And that's where you know I took this for my job at Emory and Henry College. Um Bob Johnson was amazing. We're you know, a lot of these kids at that time were coming from uh Southwest Virginia and the and the uh coal mining district and area like that, first generation college kids. Um, and so he was kind of teaching them like a renaissance man, like he grew up in the biggest, you know, the the army house in DC, um, because his dad was chief of staff of the army. Um, and so just had all these things. I mean, he had a chauffeur take him to school every day, um, kind of thing. And like, and so we we were doing things like dining etiquette and networking class, things like that back in 1998 when I was in Emory, Virginia. And I have taken that and paid it forward here, and so our life skills program. I mean, we do three golf lessons with our guys in summer, uh, dining etiquette, ballroom, dancing, um, do a fishing clinic, go out in a fishing trip challenge, um, networking class. Every player has a community mentor um to where and this is cool. So, when when when when the rules changed, yeah, the NIL rules changed, like for a lot of people, they they were like, Oh man, this I was like, This is gold, man. Like, yeah, school is about building relationships. Our players could not go out to breakfast, lunch, or dinner with one of our season's ticket holders and talk to them about life after basketball. And like, I'm in Fort Wayne, and we're like, we're about 400,000 people. I'm I'm one to two people removed from everybody in the city. Like, I can help jumpstart careers, you know, but I couldn't. Um, I I got the suit guy that takes care, gives all my staff.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

I was gonna mention that. Really big fan of that coach.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah, oh, Chris Lambert, like he's on my Twitter feed, community mentor, he's awesome. Um, just takes care of us. Like, oh well, I approached him about five, six years ago and said, Hey, would you do a graduation suit for our players? And he's like, Yeah, I'd love to. Because I told him when I graduated college, my dad gave me a suit and$500 and says, Hey, go make life, you know, and figure it out. Well, I couldn't do a graduation suit interview suit for my players because there was no way in the rules. Uh and it just didn't make sense, you know, and I couldn't work it out for like within a gift and stuff like that with the rules. So when NIL happened, you know, we get all of our guys these custom suits, man. They open them, got their name in them, they get to walk across the stage for graduation, they got an interview suit, they're going to the first weddings, they look and they're custom, you know. It's like my 6'11 dudes like they look good. The problem is, is now they got a custom suit, they never want to go back. That's expensive to get into. So yeah, going backwards, the community mentor piece. So every one of my players has a mentor, and they're a man and woman in the community, business man and woman that uh commits to one meal a month, and in that meal they bring another person from the community. So the goal is that through the course of a year, every one of my players is gonna get you know nine to twelve connected people. And then I have a gentleman comes in, teaches my guys networking skills, gets them all on on uh um uh what's the uh I'm going blank on LinkedIn, I think. LinkedIn, LinkedIn, yeah. Teaches them that they get their LinkedIn stuff, they start networking, how to do that. Well, then what's happened is that's grown over three years to where I have an army of community mentioned. Now they have a team, so each player gets four to five mentors and they're going out to eat and they're meeting these people. And so what's happening is is you know, it's shrinking the margins to keep a player here, like CJ had not. I mean, he's yeah, arguably player of the year if we stopped right now in the in our league or what in the argument, like he's a third year guy, you know, and and playing phenomenally well, but like the margins have been shrunk because like our city's embraced him. He knows that like when when his pro basketball career is over in 10 years, you know, he's gonna be able to come back to Fort Wayne. He's gonna be able to skip the first job for the second one, you know, skip the job where he's serving coffee to get the job where he's receiving coffee in the meeting. And that's so impactful, you know. That's what college is really about networking. And and you know, hey, we're paying our dudes too. Like that, like he's gonna get a nice job, but but that's also like What's what's more than that? Like you start doing the math on like 50 grand, all right, take taxes out, 40% of that. And now you know you're talking about, I mean, you start doing the math that and you pay your agent all stuff. It's not like you're saying, okay, yeah, 18 grand, like what's that gonna be difference over the next 50 years? You know, maybe it's 200 grand. Like, even if you do that math, it still doesn't make that much sense. It's all about like how do you set yourself up with life and the relationships to be able to, you know, get your career started in the post-basketball thing. Um, but our guys, they all have you know, they're all investing their NIL and all that stuff. So, like, things are cool, man. I'm really connected here. I love Fort Wayne. When you come back up here, uh, we got homecoming January 31st, Brandon. Let's get your butt up here.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

I know I gotta convince the wife. Yeah, no, I wanna I want to be there. Um like even listening to the Notre Dame game with my wife. We actually went to the college. My wife's an Aggie, so she went to Texas AM. So we went to the Texas AM and Miami game. We're driving back. I said, Oh, the boys are playing, I'll put them on real quick if you don't mind. She's like, Yeah, that's fine. She was falling asleep, and I was listening to it. And I was like, This in my car. I was like, Oh, this game's good. I was like, We gotta lead, just hold it. And uh, I was just so happy. I had to pull over and text you real quick.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

So that was much that was much like the game you went to in Indiana, the one at home, the the one at home where we beat them when they're ranked number three, where we didn't just shoot off the charts, we just played an aggressive brand of basketball and like spaced them out and created some matchup things because we play a little bit smaller, more skilled. Um, it was not like so. The the next year, you didn't go to the Indiana game at Indiana where we beat them 92 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I didn't, I really wanted to, but I didn't go.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

So, yeah. I hey, my wife went to that one. Uh honestly, she went to support me. She tells, she loves telling the story. She's like, and and my son, my my son got in trouble at school, almost didn't get to go. And I can't remember. He yeah, he was like he was like nine or ten or something like that. He almost didn't get to go, got in trouble in school that day. And she's like, Hey, only reason like you got in trouble at school, only reason you're going to this game, we're supporting dad. He's gonna get smoked like a salmon. Like, like they're not they're not surprised, and they're gonna get beat by 75. We gotta give dad a big hug. Um, and uh, and so we go to that game, and I don't know, we're up two down to at halftime. Yeah, and you know, we're playing Archie. He was a really good coach. We we played this guy's when they were at Dayton. Um actually lost at the buzzer. We were up five with 30 seconds left when they were an elite eight team. Uh Mike Last, who's my who's my broad broadcaster now, he didn't come back to the ball on a uh on a baseline. I know, Mike. I know. I still I still call him out on the air once a year. Um and they beat us at the buzzer. Um, but anyway, going back to that game. So she's she goes to to halftime, and you know, they're at assembly hall and they're walking out, and she sees the staff go back, and they're still like angst coming out of halftime. That's where you got it, right? She turns to Tommy at the time and says, Hey, dad's gonna win this game. And sure enough, we end up hitting 17 threes, 92 72. That was an incredible game.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Incredible, incredible. Um, talk a little bit about a plane in assembly hall, the history of it. I mean, there's got to be some type of feeling walking into that, you know, walking into the arena.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, and uh listen, I've probably gained more respect for it now that I've been in the state for 15 years. Um, you know, I grew up in Atlanta. Uh, you know, I've coached all over the place. Um, you know, Indiana's really a special place to coach rally basketball. Like people love their basketball. I don't know if I necessarily knew what I was getting into. You know, I grew up in Georgia, it was football country. Um, we had good basketball, but like it was football country. You know, I coached in Florida for eight years, football country. You know, you get to Indiana and you hear about it, and you go to some of these gyms, you go to Newcastle. We recruited from Newcastle, 12,000 seats. You know, you go to uh uh Knightsville or uh you know and see see the the the you know where the Hoosiers, you know, the the movie, and it's just cool stuff, and you hear them talk about class basketball and all that stuff, but you don't really appreciate it. Um, and then you go play them. That was my second time playing there. We'd played there in 16 when we had the chance summit league championship team with Max Landis. Um, and that would have been when you were there too. Um and yo Yogi dropped I don't know, like 150 on us that night. He was so good. Um, God, and we had a really good team. Uh, may even be a better team than that team that went down there to win, but it was awesome. Um it was awesome. So I auction everything off. I ever I mean, I had like 25 people sitting on my bench at the Notre Dame game that are wearing polos like their coaches, you know, like honorary coaches, kids, ball boys, like like that's how we make this world work, you know. That's how our program is raised. Like, money pays, like, yeah, do it now with NIO, it's great. So, like, I had three guys that sat on the bench of both Indiana wins. It was easier to convince a second one, but these these three guys, like they they were they were on the first game in in Fort Wayne, they're wearing their suits and sitting on the bench. And Indiana's got 75 managers, coaches, cones, and these guys. One guy's like uh he calls himself a farmer, uh, but but he you know he owns a heating and air company and he does very well. Another guy's a financial planner, and another guy was uh was uh uh Doug Knoll, who coached here, who's now in real estate. Um, before the first division one coach, so these guys are all sitting on the baseline and they're joking, like that was a great experience for those first one. So they all do it the second time around. And so I walk out and I won't name it's a 33% chance. And I walk out with my coaching staff. One of them's got his cell phone up in the air, and he's kind of videotaping the experience. I look behind the cell phone, I said, Hey, that better not be pointed towards those cheerleaders. You're dressed up like a suit, you're gonna get me fired. And he laughs, he goes, Oh, sorry, coach, sorry, coach. You know, and uh we go out there, and I'm like, Man, this is a lot of prayer. Like, we're gonna get smoked by 75. You know, you have that feeling a lot because like you go out, and we've been really good since I've been here, but there's a difference in some body types, you know, and it can get away from you, like the rebounding, smashing the glass, and those are good coaches. I mean, both Archie and Tom Green, really good coaches. Um, and so but uh, but that night, man, the ball went in. Uh, it was it was it was a good night in Bloomington, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah, no, it definitely was. Talk about um what you look for in recruits, coach, a little bit. Is there certain traits that you look for in recruits? We even had one of your recruits on our show. I don't know if you know that, but Justin Curry the second, uh, he committed to Valparaiso, but he came on our podcast uh several months ago. But we, you know, me and Jason definitely had the question of what do you look for in certain traits in a in a recruit, whether it's high school and then you also look at the portal more than you know, high school. I'm just you know, it's both of them.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I mean I so I I I kind of call it the the Kent State style of of recruiting. I'll I'll give a shout out to those guys who've been elite in the Mac and you know may not have the best setup, like as you go through, but it've just had really good coaches and now it's been Rob Sender off for a long time. Um, and and they've always recruited, you know, whatever it takes, you know, transfers, junior college, freshmen. That's kind of been ours. Like, hey, let's go find a good player. I don't know what it's all gonna look like, but good player. The nice part is we got a Purdue degree. Um, you know, when you were here, we had an IU and a Purdue degree, like two powerful degrees. All right. And you know, we're in in a great city, so you got a great city to sail. We got a Coliseum where the Detroit Pistons started there in Fort Wayne. They played two NBA finals, NBA All-Star game, got great tradition. So, like, we got this great framework to recruit kids. And what was ironic was like when I first got here, um, we had more success when there was no preconceptions, misconceptions, meaning, you know, we were a transition school coming out of D Division II, the Gliak, all that kind of stuff, um, into you know, Division One. And we were kind of building, and Dana did a nice job, and Tony did a nice job before that, kind of building to a certain level, but we still could go, and that's where you know we had an allegian air flight to Florida, which is$60 a direction straight to uh Sanford, Florida, and we had a pipeline coming out of Florida, and these kids would go out here and be like, Man, this is awesome! You know, like the Mac, the Summit, the Ryzen, uh uh and the and the Missouri Valley, like those are great mid-major leagues, like the best mid-major basketball in the country is probably played here in the Midwest, and they come up and see all this stuff, and we we we did really, really well with that. So, like, I was looking for what could draw people when you don't necessarily have the name recognition, you know, and like I'm not a sexy guy, like, so I gotta figure out a sexy style, all right. You know, and so that's where that's where I I thought, all right, so like you're building something new, create a style that people want to come watch and people want to play. And like nobody wants to go watch, you know, like you ever been to a chess match?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

No, but I've seen some uh TikTok clips of a famous uh chess person, I forget his name.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

But there probably wasn't a sellout, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

No, no, there's no not many people there.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

No, and you go around college basketball these days, and if you get caught watching the wrong game, you're gonna watch 75 dribbles in a possession. And so, you know, and we're in Indiana, man, people appreciate ball movement, player movement, spacing, and like, man, scoring the basketball, like that makes it fun and like enjoyable to come out. And so, you know, and and listen, I've never seen a game where the winning team didn't score more points than the losing team. And so that's our goal. Let's score more points. And so we create a style like let's shoot the three, two. And you know, if you're not intentional about how you operate, I don't care what job you're in, you're not gonna be consistently successful. You better be intentional, you know, and then be able to reflect and adjust and all that stuff. And early on, a lot of my um stuff came from I I scouted Belmont um when I was in Stetson at Stetson. Yeah, that was one of my favorite Rick Bird, phenomenal coach.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Um, he doesn't know that I've tried to emulate a bunch of stuff that he's done over time and like pace and space and and stuff. And so we we uh early on, like I I took on a lot of that stuff, and so I will never recruit a player that can't shoot the basketball, um, other than a five-hand. We're gonna play four perimeter guys that can all really, really shoot it. If I'm gonna make a mistake, he's gonna be able to shoot the basketball. Um, and then I try never to have a guy on the floor where where more than one guy on the floor that that can't, you know, that that not only shoots it but can't deck it. So we've got to have three to four guys that can shoot it and deck it. Okay, so we may take a little bit smaller size uh to get guys who can shoot it and drive it. Um, and we may take a guy that, you know, maybe, you know, statistically a transfer that's like a low 30s shooter, but can drive it as well. Um, and then we feel like we can raise his level of shooting because the quality of shots. So over the last, I think it's 14 years now, we started stating this my second year as an assistant coach, paint touch shots. Got this from Doc Rivers when we used to go to his practices with the Orlando Magic when I was at Stetson, like that was when it was starting to come in vogue in the NBA back in the you know early 2000s. And like we've shot 62 percent over the last 14 years when we touch the paint before we shoot it, and 37 when we don't. And so you know how we play is either throw it's opposed inside out or drive it, kick it. And so we're looking to play fast, but like we're also looking for like how do we get to the paint as quick? We call it getting the green light. Once we get the green light, they're letting it fly. And then I don't have to coach, like I don't coach shot selection because like I coach process, like I'll go back and watch a year that we touch the paint before we shoot it, and I may pick out this is you know 32, 33, 34, 35 games that we play that year, and we may only have a dozen bad shots. You'd be like, ooh, that's gross, you know. Whereas you'll see that in any game that didn't touch the paint right now. Will we still get some? Like my goal is 80 paint touch shots. If we're playing on the road, playing a power four team, 90, you know, because that's where we're more efficient with those. Yeah, and that's our goal. And we gotta have a little green light, like, hey man, Brandon, you hit four threes in a row, you got the green light, you're gonna, I gotta give you space for a heat check, man. You're feeling it, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah, so what's happened is is you know, now I don't have mom and dad sitting up in the stands cross-eyed as I say bad shot. You know, I'm just talking process. Hey, let's get to the paint, green light, be more attacking. And I coach every timeout when I get a war sheet at the end of the timeout, um, or the beginning of the timeout, I go in there and it's like, okay, we're six of seven, paint touch shots. And let's say we're we won that war 12 to six. I tell the guys, hey man, you're attacking the paint. Great job. Like, like, like keep keep being in attack mode, or we may be down and we took six of seven. I say, hey, trust the process. Numbers are gonna play out, keep attacking. Or we may be if two of our seven shots in that war, that four-minute war, all right between media timeouts is a paint touch. And I tell our guys, we're down, you know, 12 to 20. I say, hey guys, man, we're settling, we're not getting to the paint, you know, or we may be up and we were two of our six. I say, hey guys, man, that's fool's gold. Numbers are gonna play out like get to the paint. We made our we made our run. That's you know, not not doesn't make you know analytical sense. I probably don't see that in the timeout. There they'd be like, Coach, come on, you're being a nerd, but like right, you know, you're gonna you're gonna dive into it, and our guys kind of understand it. Touch it, you know, coach it all through the process. Um, it's been really good. Um it it is really hard though. We had 10 newercomers this year. Um, for the first time, we've been the you know kings of retention of retaining really good players. I mean, Concho's in the NBA, Max Landis, who's a player that you're guys that got had grad transfer eligible. We even back with Rasheed and Q that could have transferred with NIL to get probably more stay. And we unfortunately lost a couple guys this last year, um, which I I you know I got some pride in because they did very well in in their growth there, um, but also disappointment for our organization at work. Um, but it's harder, man. We had 10 newcomers, and so I had to really rethink this summer, um, not how we're gonna play, I believe in that, you know, but more about my teaching methods, gotcha, you know, and how you're gonna teach. Um, because like I'm I'm uh coaches are teachers, you got to teach it. Yeah, and we're blessed with the summer to where we we spread our six weeks over eight weeks um in the summer for our kind of training camp. We get with that summer access. And so we really dive into our teaching, probably do a little bit more live than I did in the past. Um, we do a lot of video work in the summer. I've created a power words glossary, it's about an hour and a half, has all my power words. You learn my language before you get here. As soon as you commit to us, I send you this private YouTube link, has video clips, so now you understand all my jargons. So, like so much of the world's about communication, and so just trying to figure out new ways that we can get our kids acclimated to play at a high level quicker, and I think we saw that this year. Um, you know, I think we've won nine of 12 now and playing a lot of basketball, scheduled too heavy early for the money games um this year. Man, I don't like that. Uh remind me of some of those days when we were at Stetson just trying to make our budgets. I hope we don't have to keep doing that. But yeah, our guys loved it. Although, man, it's hard to go on the road. We were on the road 15 to 25 days. Wow. Um, two times the West Coast uh in in that time or far west. Um you can see the bags under my eyes. This is our bye week.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Getting some rest, huh, Coach? Getting some rest.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

No, no, not now, man. I got I got a 17 and a 14-year-old that do everything, uh, every sport. And so it's my catch-up time there. And I had a quite a list that uh Tracy, my wife, had for me for a couple days during this week. So um, so I got to escape with this podcast. So thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Hey coach, uh quick question. You were talking about the travel a little bit. Nett wants to bring me back. You guys moved from the summit to the horizon. Tell me about how that travel impacts your plot play style with the running up and down the court. You know, you used to have to travel far distances, I'm sure, with the connecting flights. I read somewhere you you you always talked about O'Hare sitting in the O'Hare airport. Oh, you don't have to do that as much anymore. So, could you tell us about how that kind of impacts uh the way you guys play now and how it could, you know, you could see it on the court in a way.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

So I will not talk bad about O'Hare. The travel gods will get me. Okay, no way. Brett Rump, my my radio guy, like he's the grumpiest dude ever. Like, uh, I mean, uh, there was so we had we had one trip uh and and concho was on this team, and they had a blizzard out in North Dakota. Okay, so we can't so we go to Chicago, we bus to Chicago, skip our our Fort Wayne to Chicago, bus there, and like flight gets canceled, all right. And we're like, man, like so we're gonna have to get there the day of the game, and so we rebook and we have to rebook to Minneapolis and then get to North Dakota, so which is like another four-hour drive. And we're like, oh man, it's crazy, and there's no real rules because the rest of the league at this time is all on I-28, they don't care about us, you know. And we're like, shoot, we're out of luck. So we're we're going to North Dakota like day of game. And so we're going like I'm on the cell phone, we're busting there, it's it's just coming down on us, it's brutal. And finally, it's about three hours worth of game. We're gonna get there literally, roll up in the bus at tip time, and the league finally makes the safe decision, says, Okay, we'll postpone it. So we go back straight to the gym, we practice, go there, play the next game. So they rebook it. So we're playing back to back. Okay, now luckily the league did it with the other teams that were playing at North Dakota State, so we're going North Dakota to North Dakota State back-to-back days, okay. And with our style, man, that's a bear. Um, and I played a little bit of a short uh uh ros that the other, both figuratively and literally, like, and so that group Concho was on a team. He hits the the the uh he played, I think, 40 minutes um at North Dakota in the win, on the bus, prep get and again still blizzard. We get to North Dakota State, um, and he plays 44 in that game, plays like 88 minutes, and it's the last like we go to overtime. North Dakota State is a hard place to win, man. Yeah, like I mean, they are good. I mean, one year they had to pull the fire alarm on us, like because we were in a run late game to make hey, they're crazy, they love it, man. Yeah, they love their sports out there. So, anyway, um, we come to that timeout, and I look at John, and he had beat Omaha um the year before on just low flat, and he pulls up for a three. Um, and then we had beat eastern Michigan the year before running one of those kind of gh screens with our flat, throws it back, and and and the four man hits it off that. And I and I turned to John and I said, Hey, Eastern Michigan or Omaha. And he goes, Coach, he goes, I'm too tired for eastern Michigan. Give me Omaha. So we go flat. He's eyeball, he's not gonna drive, he's got no plan of driving whatsoever. He just lets it fly, boom, money. We walk out of there, two wins, back to back blizzard. So then we jump in the bus and we're hightailing it. Okay, no, no, I'm sorry, we gotta spend the night there first thing in the morning. Like, we're up at like four to get to the Omaha airport, and our flight gets canceled out of Omaha. Um no, and and let's see, no, no, no, out of North Dakota State, so at uh in Fargo gets canceled out of Fargo, so we're right there, all right. And our bus had already left, and we're dialing up the bus, like, come on back, man. We gotta get to Minneapolis. We got it's New Year's Day or New Year's Eve, right? And so bus comes back, but it takes two hours. We get the bus, we refuel, we're busing Bolton to Minnesota, and we're barely gonna make our flight. So we get in there and we're rolling through security, all right, and we had to make a decision. Like we had only like four guys that couldn't get on that next flight. So it's I I I go with the players. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna be the guy responsible. All the players, figure all this stuff out. So we get to the uh uh is it called tarmac? Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yeah, uh yeah, they've already pulled away. Oh we get up on the chair and said, Boys, let's rally them. We're waving our arms.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

It's it's New Year's like the plane was already taxiing before you guys could get on.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

The plane comes back, they come back, they open up. It's probably broken all sorts of you know, flight, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Pilot comes out and is like, dude, we're a Fort Wayne-based crew, we got you, coach, and we just get home, you know, and then a few guys didn't, and then they they took it for the team, like it was strong, but I got the players back. The other guys got back next day. I mean, it was in it incredible. So then another year we play, and there's another blizzard in Omaha, and we get there, and this is my Brett Rump, who's our radio guy, you know, he's crazy, so grumpy. I used to take his phone when we get on, we get delayed on airports. I had to check in your phone because they negatively like tweet at the airlines. I'm like, man, you're gonna get us like on some list, dude. Relaxed. All right. So, so like our flight gets canceled first thing in the morning, and and like, what are we gonna do? He sees A flight to Louisville and it's a ferry flight. And I'm like, what's a ferry flight? Like, whatever. You know, mine's going every which way. And and so they tell us, Oh, well, that we're trying to get a plane to Louisville, and there's nobody's gonna be, it's just gonna be you know, cargo, and then they're gonna fly from Louisville. And our radio guy and I convince the ferry flight, they find a a crew, and us and some it was our team and some random dude who could who got canceled out.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

We jump on this ferry flight, we fly to Louisville, and my assistants' parents live in Louisville, meet us with like subways, and we got a bus, we get home.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Like it was crazy, crazy traps. And so, you know, I was I I was probably like I probably was not gonna continue a successful marriage with one-day trips to Denver, one day trips to Oil Robbers, you know, Blizzards. I got kids I want to watch occasionally play sports, so yeah, we get in the horizon league, horizon's league's been gold. But listen, Summit League, man. I respect the basketball, those schools are serious about their sports, fan bases, great basketball. There were great basketball coaches um while I was out there, big time basketball. Um, and man, hard places to win. Um, I mean, I I remember every time we had success out there, like those are those are feathers in my cap. Great, great, great basketball. Summer league, and really good just you know, motion offenses, you know, uh man-to-man pack line defense. We played a little bit different than some of the other guys, but like still our man-to-man, um, playing fast, stuff like that. But I do think, you know, Jason, uh, to make a long story short, uh, it has helped us because these short bus rides, you know, playing fast. I think our legs are with us. The other thing is like we won the summit league in 2016, and we're the number one seed. South Dakota was the number eight seed. Right. Yeah. We play, you know, in the arena in Sioux Falls, and they had you know 8,000 people there. Yeah. And we had, you know, 50, you know, people, you know, and here it is a 1-8 game. Like, and there ain't that much difference between you know those kind of things. It's it's it's it's hard. They're all busting there. We had to fly out two days before, not knowing if we were gonna be a you know, a one or two seed or or a five-seed, you know, because they were different days. So it was brutal. Horizon league's really good though, man. There's multiple years we've gone into the last weekend, we could be first or fifth. Um, last year, um, could have been first or fifth. Last weekend we ended up fifth. Um, my best player didn't play that last week. Not my best player, but a really good player. Leading score in our league, didn't play it last weekend. Nationally televised game, um, was still kind of a little dinged up, and so we lose the game, and that didn't help us, you know. But then, you know, two years before that, we won the league. We go in, could be finished first or fifth. Scores are coming in, so we're on the bus. Um, you know, and uh you we're at we're at Detroit, win the game. We just beat uh uh Oakland and uh two days before. We're driving past Oakland and they win. Boom, we win the league. It was awesome. We thought about going to the game to watch Cheerum on at the end of the thing. Um, so it's wild, man. Really good coaches in the horizon league.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yes, yes. Coach, talk about finding John Conchar. I've always been intrigued by how limit, I mean, how he is limited with offers and he winds up in your hands. Talk a little bit about that, how you found him and and the evolution of John Conchar.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

So, I mean, John John's I mean, it's a wild story, and there's a lot of them out there, more than you can imagine. Guys that just develop within systems and grow into their body, like kind of figure it all out. Well, um, John was actually the leading scorer in Illinois that year. Now, now the the at West Chicago, not in the city league, not in the Catholic League, but West Chicago. Um, played for a really good high school coach, um, but uh, but was 6'4, about 162, um, really thin. Um, and you know, his dad and his brother sent out a bunch of emails about him. Um, but you know, looked like a lot of skilled, skinny guys that ended up having great, probably, you know, D3 careers, things like that. Like that's where he had gone to visits on stuff.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

And uh one of my best friends, um, Rod Balanas, had been a longtime assistant at Notre Dame. Uh, we were connected through our Colgate days. He had been assistant before me at Colgate. Um, and we're just good friends. And I just got in the job that spring. Um, and he said, Hey, John, I got a kid I've been following. I've been going up no logo up to Chicago, watching him play. Um, he reminds me of Matt Conanton. Um, they had had a challenging year that year. Jerry Scrann had gotten ineligible and they weren't you know great that year. He said, you know, hey, probably not the year that Notre Dame takes a no-star uh uh recruit in this year. And you know, whether they would have pulled the trigger or not, I I I don't ultimately know, but he really liked him and a great rod's a great evaluator. And I trust him. So the the their season had all been over, so I couldn't go see him live. I watched some video. Um, it was hard to tell with like who they're playing against. I go up to watch him in a workout in a pickup game again, hard to tell, looked really good. And he's a player that just like you know, like like he he just could really pass it, you know, was a little bit passive, kind of with usage rate and stuff like that, like not always aggressive, but almost, I mean, elite hockey assist guy, you know, and playing you couldn't really tell 6'4162. Um, and I laugh with John, he's getting in the hall of fame January 31st this year. It's awesome. Jersey being retired this summer, like really cool things are kind of happening around him. Like, it's awesome. All right, so he comes on his visit. I still remember this. We're at Quaker State, right across from the hall. We're eating wings, and he's not, he's not, and we're watching like Sweet 16 or something like that on TV, and he's not eating any wings. And I just go to his dad, Jim, and who's become really good friends, like, hey, what what's up with? Well, he's got some digestive, doesn't eat on game days, like struggling to carry weight and stuff like that, doesn't you know, hasn't really figured this thing out. And he's like, he doesn't eat on game days, yeah. He's just whatever it takes. I like I can't imagine. Like, I don't I don't skip many meals, you know, and and like I'm like, shoot, and I tell my staff, like, God, I you know, like if he's 164 as a senior, like probably not be real success. Well, you know, digest it, watch some more film. He's awesome, kid, awesome dad. I'm like, score a lot of points again. I'm not gonna make a mistake because he does shoot it, pass it. Yeah, um, and we take him. Um, we go to Canada that summer, and we were picked to win the league the next year, had some really good players back. Um and an all-league guy, kind of that three, four, which kind of what I kind of project him as a freshman play in. And he comes into my office as we go to Canon, he does some nice things, but didn't really stand out that much. I thought you're gonna be a nice player in our program. He comes to me, he says, Coach, I I really want a redshirt this year. And we had already had kind of a history of redshirting from guys, and uh, and I kind of saw okay, yeah, let's let's let's do that. So, so we we retro him, he chose to do it. Um, well, he puts on 42 pounds of muscle in his redshirt year, figured out his dietary stuff, you know, and like working with our nutritionist, working with our strength coach, falls in love with the weight room. I mean, we'd go to a hotel on the road and he'd be cleaning like 475. I mean, he'd be finding weight, you know. Oh my gosh, like it was crazy. Like, we had to back him off what he was doing. He fell in love with lifting so much. It was crazy. I mean, I just made I just made that number up, but it was like more weight than I you can even imagine. Like he was huge into this, um, and just turn himself, you know, into a dude like that. And the Ray could jump, and then you know, we go to Austin P on one of the first road trips of the year next year, and he has a double double. Um, and we get back from the trip, and you know, that's in a different time that central time zone. We get back at like four o'clock in the morning. I tell my staff sleep in, I'll make sure we had a couple guys with nine o'clock classes. I roll through the weight room, walk in, go check a couple classes. But at nine o'clock class, I walk to the weight room, it's like 8:15, and there's John doing pull-ups, and he's got his clean bar next to it, and he's you know, doing you know, super sets clean, and I'm like, this dude's gonna be really good. You know, had 28 and 12, you know, get back at four o'clock in the morning. He's already at the gym at eight, and he's you know, cleaning and doing and just turned into a bear, a beast. It was awesome. So cool story. Thank you, Rod. Uh help helped us out there a little bit. Um, yeah. Great, great player for us, and and uh, you know, had some other really good players with him, but you know, it like could really, really pass the basketball and rebound it. Man, I've I didn't know you my first like you know, four years, four of my first four years, five years of college, could red show the first year. I didn't know you had to teach rebounding, like he just went and got everything. Yeah, and that was where like that first time when you saw us beat Indiana, he was um he started at the four. Um, he was six four and was our backup point guard. And he was guarding uh uh uh was it uh Juan Morgan, you know, playing the NBA, really good player, and and so he's playing the four and he could rebound with anybody, so it created this huge mismatch. And then I'd put him at the point guard. Like I still got some of my favorite clips. I got Mo Evans in the left corner, yeah. I was just thinking point guard, and John's bringing the ball up, Juan Morgan and Thomas Bryant trying to navigate a ball screen, four and a five, but it didn't have a lot. He rejects it. He's a righty dunks over the top of him with his left hand, and like, man, it's just like how do you play positionless basketball and put guys into funky matchups? And that's pretty cool. And uh, John John made me look like I could really coach at an early stage, it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

One of my favorite personal John Contrar memories that I have, coach, is you talk about him loving the weight room. Was so in college, I had night classes a lot, so like I would eat, you know, eat like an early dinner and then go to the weight room after. Every time I'll go to the weight room, he would he would be there without without fail. If he, you know, obviously, if you guys weren't traveling or something like that, he would be there. He loves it, man. He was deadlifting, and then like he he was done with the set, and he just looks over me and smirks, and I'm like, Yeah, he's got it. He's got it, whatever that is, he's got it.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

And that's when I they loved him, they love him. But the guys at the time, I mean, he was I mean, he was the guy we we'd walk out. I I still remember that when he played those, you know, whatever it was, 84 minutes. Um, I got a picture of him. He was carrying the team bag, you know, out of the locker room. Um, he was he volunteered in the uh no, I think he probably got paid six dollars an hour to do the laundry. So he was doing the laundry here. Here he is like a year removed from being the NBA, and he's you know, he's doing our soccer team's laundry down in the uh uh equipment room, and and he'd have the dust mop at the volleyball games doing it.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Cool, cool dude. What a man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Excited, like uh and he still, man, he he looks out for the dons. Um, yeah, you know, every time he's in in uh in in in in uh Indianapolis, like we'll send some guys down, go see him play. And you know, we send guys all over the country to go watch him play, but then he'll sign, he'll sign like a hundred you know, basketball cards for us and stuff for donors and stuff. It's uh it's it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yep, really cool. Well, I don't want to take up too much more of your time, coach, and we really appreciate you coming on and taking time out of your night, obviously, and spending time with us. But one last question that I have for you, coach. And um, as a parent and as a father, I have a 10-month-old. How do you manage uh all the all the craziness and your wife being a coach, obviously, at the college level as well? How do you manage all that?

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Yeah, you know, there's there's no, I mean, one Mary well. Um, you know, like I did that. Um, and and and she takes care of a lot of the details. Listen, and you gotta you gotta figure out your your time. Like we had, you know, we had we had we had not had a day off since 20, you know, 25th since Christmas, and uh we played on Sunday. Um, Monday was off. I gave the staff off. And you know, uh Tracy and I went to went to the you know winery down the road uh for an afternoon and just spend some time. Um, you gotta spend that time with that, and then figure out whenever you can how do you be organized so you can get to the kids' games and do that stuff. Um, be in the moment. I take my kids to to school every day. Um that's awesome. Actually, sad moment. We finally got my son a car. Uh he's 17 and uh out of a car this year, so I don't get to drive. Um, yeah, which is cool because like football, they won the state championship of Bishop Dwanger this year. Yeah, and all summer long, like I'm dropping them off at 6 a.m. on on you know in the summer. Well, man, I I I could probably go in at nine, you know, and you know, and go into the office. Who's at the office at 6 15 and the summer's basketball coach when maybe you don't need to, but I was dropping them off football practice. Um, but I missed those moments. But yeah, trying to figure that stuff out. But it's cool, man. I've had I got some great pictures of my kids, like, you know, they sat on the bench, they wore uniforms, they were ball boys, ball girls, they went on the road with us. Um, I think there's great value in in my like profession having kids around your players, seeing what it looks like to be a successful parent. Um, you know, my wife's around everything, um, too, like a successful husband and things like that, you know, having them around, like what I do for a living is a lifestyle. And I think you you you make it that way, and it allows your players to see what a successful life sees like, hey, you know, hey, coach's wife works, like he works a lot. Like, man, this is amazing! Like, you can you can have it all. Like, my wife can work, I can have kids, I can be caring with that. And I've had a tremendous mentors for my kids being around my players over the years, and that's that's really cool. So the last ones, um, I still remember Chris Morgan's on my route right now, point guard. Um, and it was on his visit. And Tommy, like Tracy had already done the math, he was gonna be here, Tommy's senior in high school before he goes to college. And he told him on his visit, he said, Hey, now this is an important role for you. Like, he's had Pierre Bland, John Conchar, Max Landis, they were all impactful, but that was not the last message before he gets kicked out of the house to go to college. Like, you got a big role, and he's good, those are gonna be influential years. You you know, you you you you start, you know, you you start kind of making serious choices for yourself, yes. And uh uh Chris looked at her like, hey, you crazy lady, like I just want to play some hoops, man. Telling him how serious this is taking care of my kids, but it's been awesome. Um, so I don't know what to tell you. I'd say, man, there's no perfect decisions, it's hard. Raising kids is hard, and what I'll tell you, man, the hardest thing, like this stuff, yes, um, wait until social media and they're you know, my son's a point guard and a quarterback, and like they and kids, kids are brutal on that stuff, yeah. You know, and then when your coach's kid, they're even more brutal on that stuff, like they like to do that, and you know, and then all of a sudden they're watching all social media stuff. Um, my daughter, she's 14. Um, my wife got her a flip phone. She's like, We're gonna save your son. He's already you know lost his brain with this this this uh this phone. We're gonna get you a flip phone. So she she does all these start like like gets on to Pinterest and finds a way to decorate, so it looks cool, right? Yeah, some of her friends are like, Oh, that's cool. Well, now it's not cool anymore, right? She's had that for like three years, um, and she's like, This isn't this isn't that cool, but we're like, Man, we we've saved you some brain cells with uh with that thing with the flip phone. Um, now the store to get a flip phone. I don't know if any of you guys are ever inspired. My wife goes to ATT to to go on our package to get a flip phone. Maybe it's Verizon. I don't know. My school phone's from ATT. So Verizon, I think it's Verizon's what our home went. I don't know. She pays all bills. So anyway, she goes to Verizon and she's like, I want to do a flip phone. Like, no, ma'am, ma'am, you you don't want to do that. Like, you get this free iPhone 72 for for you know, free for$175, right? Or$475, right? Free for$475. So, like, she's like, No, no, no, no, I'll pay the$475 for that iPhone, but I'm gonna put that in a drawer. I want a flip phone for my daughter. Like, well, we we won't set up the flip phone, and you want you don't want to do it, like trying to sell her. It's like, yeah, all right. So she walks out, just kind of ticked off. My wife man, she's aggressive. Like, she's like, I'm not taking it. So then this other person comes over to her, like says, Hey, I overheard you who works in stores, says, Hey, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but go to Walmart. You can get this flip phone for like you know,$65, and then come back here. We'll we'll we'll set it up for you. Like, we'll we'll do it. He's just he's trained to to sell, so she goes to Walmart, has the same argument at Walmart. Can't do it. Oh my god, almost like the manager says, Listen, I am buying a phone all right today, pays for the iPhone, puts that by, takes the flip phone, goes back to gets a cost us like a I don't know, probably a grand, I don't know what it is. Still have to pay all the stuff for the iPhones, but got the flip.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Wow, it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

People won't like to get a flip phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

No, they don't. So, something that we've done in our hot household, real quick, is there's a home phone that you connect through your cell phone. So when we get home, we put our cell phones up. Someone needs to reach us, and someone calls us on our cell phone, it'll ring the home phone. Somehow, my wife found that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

Yeah, that's been huge for us because, as you know, having a podcast and social media and trying to stay, you know, transport and trying to stay relevant about what's going on in the news. I constantly oh, you're on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

That's gonna put some stress on your stuff, man. Uh figured out that's good. You got your plan.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Cool, yeah, exactly. So that's been that's been our plan. It's been working. So, you know, at night I get on and you know, see what's going on. But other than that, if I'm not at work when I come home, put it right there. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

So, you guys do college, you guys do a ton with college football. I'm a college football fan. Um, love it. My father-in-law is a uh Big Ten football referee. My son loves football, won a safe championship, gonna be quarterback and next year. Like, he he loves it. Like, I think that's what he wants to do. Like, I love football. Um, so who's your who's your team, Brendan? You can say it, you won't offend me because we didn't have a basketball team at at IPFW. Who's your football team?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

I know. Our our our football team, mine, mine and David's. David's not here, but I'll speak for him. Our other co-host is Indiana football, and then Jason's and Kenny's is LSU.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

Oh, dude, you're such a bandwagon guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Come on, not a bandwagon, you and the only two Indiana football fans. There were correct, and we we have photos of how bad it was to anyone that thinks we were a bandwagon, or you know, we can name older players and things like that. You know, the cool thing in Indiana, John, as you know, was to be a Notre Dame and Indiana basketball fan. So that's that is wild.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

You're right, you're right. I got a lot of people, and then and now they're like they're like claiming Indiana football. They're like, I've been in Notre Dame football, but now I'm in Indiana because I've no Indiana football. They're also hey, but Indiana man, they've come out of the woodworks. Um, like the last three games, like they've set records for ticket sales. Um, wow, you know, who would have thought you're going to there's the orange bowl, right? Yeah, the national championships in the orange.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Essentially, yeah, yeah, essentially, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

Yeah, yeah. Uh, what is it called now?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:59

I think it's hard rock stadium, I think, is okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Right, yes, the old Orange Bowl, right? And that's where Miami plays at home. And people are like, No, it's gonna be a home game for for Indiana because so many people like the money that's being spent on tickets and stuff like that. It's cool. We just got so so we just got uh uh an email um from the uh uh the principal at my my daughter. We she goes to Catholic school, um and and and wrote somehow wrote some like God talk into why they're gonna get delayed uh school on Tuesday. And I'm like, I'm like, I mean, why not just say it? Hey, there gonna be some mom and dads drinking a couple pops watching the teachers play football. And he created all this stuff about, you know, uh anyway, it was great. I loved it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

I love it. So yeah, no, I'm I'm rooting for those, I'm rooting for those guys. Um I appreciate it. And uh hey man, I'm I I also man, I'm I'm I'm always rooting for you know, Indiana basketball and Purdue basketball, like when they're both really good, like it really makes basketball in our state powerful, um, and and known. And so, like, man, it's been so cool watching Matt do what he does, and Micah at South Bend is really good friend of mine too. He's an Indiana guy, played at Hanover College. Like, like it's great. Like, we got some really good basketball coaches, all all all three of those guys um are really, really good guys representing, but man, what painter's done. It's it's it's it's cool, man. Uh he's he's sort of the gold standard right now. Um, yes, that level of of coaching the right right way and got some boys doing well. We got a got another Fort Wayne boy doing some good things for him right now, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

We like that too. Sure does, sure does. He's been uh he's been fighting those uh Fort Wayne, you know. Well, he's a Fort Wayne guy. I know, but he's a four wing guy. We like that, but um

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Thanks for having me on. I gotta go watch, I gotta go watch some film. We got Milwaukee coming up this week. They smoked us like a salmon up at their place. They were really good. Um, we're playing pretty good basketball, so hopefully we can change that one, three in row two on the road. Um feeling pretty good about our group. But uh man, Horizon League, too many good coaches. I need to find a league that's gonna have so many good coaches.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:23

That'll be hard. Best of luck the rest of the season, coach. All right, thanks, Jason.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Appreciate it. Thanks, Brandon. Appreciate you guys. All right, take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

See, coach.